Oil then Paint or other way around?

[max_hyde]

Hi, just a quick question, have sanded down all the woodwork and about to start on the topsides, will be using deks olje for the woodwork and then going to paint the topsides, is that the right way around or should I paint the boat first then oil the woodwork?

Cheers Max

[CharlieJ]

Oil first,'then paint. Paint is hard to get back off bare wood, easier to remove from varnished or oiled.

Assuming some will get on the wood (it will)

Oh- and being picky here. The topsides are between sheer and water line. Usually little wood word on the sides of a boat

[jdsackett]

sorry, have to disagree with ya charlie. by the time the wood is oiled, you will have oil all over the place. spills, little drips, etc. paint won't stick to oil. it will fisheye and will not stick. mask off the wood and paint first. the oil wont hurt the dry paint and if the wood is already oiled and you are just re-doing it, the paint wont stick worth a darn anyway and will be easy to clean off. use good tape. go to an automotive paint store and get the good 3m stuff.

[marujo_sortudo]

I would presume you would sand and then wipe down all painted surfaces with rags dampened in thinner prior to painting.  Shouldn't that also incidentally clean up *most* of the spilled oil?

[jdsackett]

yeah, it would, depending on the sequence of events. if you sand first, all you do is sand the oil deeper into the paint. oil and silicone is nasty stuff to have around paint and you will never get it all off. best not to use thinner as a wash, it isn't 100% clean and will leave a film on whatever you clean with it. best to use some dish soap like dawn or something and rinse off well. do a final wipe with 75-25 alchohol (to capt k, not the kind you drink )that will act as a cleaner and an anti static, helps repel dust. wont do it 100% but helps a lot. you can get it by the gallon cheap at places like smart and final, costco, etc. i still stand by what i said earlier. do the trim last. besides, how are you going to get the tape to stick to the oiled wood?? rhetorical question, because it won't. then you have "Beards" seeping up through the edge of the tape leaving a crappy looking edge with oil underneath the paint that it isnt adhering to leaving you with a place for peeling to start. when it comes to painting, think murphys law times ten and you have a conservative estimate about what can blow up on you. prep is 90% of a paint job. do it right and you dont have to fool with it for many years. wrong and it could be a few minutes. sorry for the long post, and i don't mean to rain on anyones parade, just giving my humble opinion. regards, j.d.

[CharlieJ]

Only one problem with all this. Ever tried to get paint out of the grain of bare mahogany or teak? 25 years in a furniture repair shop and we used to add a premium to restoring painted furniture to a clear finish.

So my suggestion was based on that thinking.

[max_hyde]

Ok so now i'm confused   did we come to a decision?


and sorry for the confusion re: the topsides, I meant I was about to start sanding the old paint down thats above the waterline including, the deck 

Cheers Max

[s/v necessity]

"25 years in a furniture repair shop and we used to add a premium to restoring painted furniture to a clear finish."

    I spent 12 years in a furniture repair shop (no way would my body have survived 25!). And I still cringe at the thought of painted wood being brought back to a clear finish.    We would normally arrange to strip the piece as best as possible  (charging a premium for the stripping process) , and then bring the client in to discuss finish options.  Often the customer would realize that they were not going to be able to go with a light stain and a clear finish... 
    Charlies right, if you ever want to remove the paint, make sure you put something between it and the wood. I would suggest several coats of something...

[CharlieJ]

    I spent 12 years in a furniture repair shop (no way would my body have survived 25!).

LOL-I understand that. Laura and I owned a repair and refinishing shop for 15 years, til she had to stop working there after some heat related health problems.  Then I started building boats.

Of course now, I'm a total boat bum

Oh, and our last boat was named Necessity- Laura named her " because she IS"

[jdsackett]

max, all i'm saying is that in my opinion, it's better to paint the big part first. think about it. when you do a hull, do you paint the bootstripe first and then the hull?? it's a heck of a lot easier to paint the topsides, then the wood. for one thing, all the stuff you need to mask is nice and flat for the most part. if you spill some oil on the paint, easy wipe up and no harm done. better to pull everything off and rebed, but thats a pretty big job. did that on my old cal when i repainted the deck. pulled everything but the mast and chainplates. pita, but looked really good when i got done. in the end, do what's easiest for you. just make sure the paint goes on a CLEAN, DRY, surface.

Charlie! i can relate on a much smaller basis. way off topic, but years (decades?) ago i found an old les paul jr guitar at a swap meet for 15 bucks. only problem, someone had painted it some gawdawful purple with some kind of glitter in it. took it apart, sanded it all down and then used purex bleach to get into the grain. worked pretty good. ate the paint, the brushes i used and the pants i was wearing. did get the paint off though regards, j.d.

[s/v necessity]

       Having gone back and read the original post, I would say that J.D. is totally right.  It should be easier to keep the paint off the wood, than it'll be to keep the oil off the rest of the boat.  And the consequences of (a small amount )paint on the wood wont be as severe as contaminating the gelcoat (or whatever is getting painted.)
       I thought we were discussing painting over some woodwork, of which I always recommend placing something between the paint and wood if there is any chance the paint will ever need to come off.
        -mark

[CharlieJ]

 Geez, what are y'all applying oil with, a fire hose? It's not that hard to keep it under control. Wood first, paint first, either way works. Just keep one well covered while you work on the other.

-L

[Manannan]

Geez, what are y'all applying oil with, a fire hose? It's not that hard to keep it under control. Wood first, paint first, either way works. Just keep one well covered while you work on the other.

-L

that is wisdom speaking and I agree, no brain surgery here, the only thing in common : do not be sloppy 

[Skipper Dan]

max, all i'm saying is that in my opinion, it's better to paint the big part first. think about it. when you do a hull, do you paint the bootstripe first and then the hull??  regards, j.d.

Well in the body business we would pain the boot stripe first. It is smaller so you have less to cover. When we do stripes we paint the stripe color then tape it off for the base color. When I started painting planes I saw that they did it the other way around. Until I showed then how much easier it was to paint the stripe first. To each his own I guess.

Dan

[jdsackett]

i was in the body biz for 35 years. i never painted a stripe first. not once.

[marujo_sortudo]

If there isn't enough disagreement or opinions here for anyone; I'm sure you can get even more opinions on the subject at the Woodenboat forum 

Seriously, though, I'm sure people have had good results either way as long as they were careful.  I've also heard to paint everything from the top down so you can cover up any drips easier; of course, that doesn't apply to bare wood.....

[Skipper Dan]

i was in the body biz for 35 years. i never painted a stripe first. not once.

I never said you couldn't do it I said it was much easier to tape off just a small portion rather than a big portion. Then you also have to consider making say a 1/4" stripe. How much simpler can it get to just lay down a piece of tape. If you paint the whole car first you have to lay down two pieces then they have to be perfectly parallel to look good. Each job is different though and sometimes it makes sense to do one or the other first.

Dan